Mike Bullock owns Bullock's Home Remodeling. He has been installing doors and windows for almost 20 years, and in my short time in project management I have not met a better window guy. This episode is not an AI deep-dive. It is a real contractor telling his story, from hauling garbage at his church to running crews on five-million-dollar homes, and it is one of the best trades-career conversations we have had on the show.
We get into the stuff that actually matters if you work with your hands: how he learned windows from one of the best in the business at the Minneapolis Airport Commission, why flashing is the whole game on the exterior, and the decision that changed his business, specializing so hard in doors and windows that he stopped bidding jobs and stopped selling them entirely. The work just comes. We also get into the grit, a table saw, a 17-foot fall off someone else's ladder, and going back to finish the floor the same day he got stitches.
If you are a young person wondering whether the trades are worth it, or an owner scared that AI is going to take the work, listen to this one. Mike's take is simple. There is no ceiling in the trades, a six-figure living is well within reach if you apply yourself, and his job is not going anywhere.
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Chapters
- 00:00 - Meet Mike Bullock, 20 years in doors and windows
- 00:31 - From hauling garbage at church to falling in love with remodeling
- 01:05 - Slinging jeans at the Buckle, and the South Dakota store he turned down
- 02:29 - Getting hired as a helper: humble, quiet, show up
- 04:36 - Why windows and doors are not as simple as they look
- 05:11 - Learning from one of the best at the Minneapolis Airport Commission
- 06:38 - Flashing, insulating, trimming: how a window really goes in
- 07:16 - The specialization payoff: no bidding, no selling, steady work
- 08:44 - The challenge: working through rain, ten below, and 100 degrees
- 09:49 - The mental game: talk yourself into what you need to do
- 10:18 - Andersen crews, big glass, and the danger of the job
- 12:04 - The table saw story: stitches, then back to finish the floor
- 13:46 - Never trust another man's ladder setup: a 17-foot fall
- 14:20 - Shattered wrist, crew trainer, never missed a bill
- 16:00 - Talking to the next generation about the trades
- 17:05 - No ceiling, and why AI is not coming for the work
- 18:14 - A pulse and a hammer versus applying yourself
- 19:11 - Six-figure trades and killing the blue-collar stigma
- 21:11 - Pick your level: freedom, flexibility, no annual review
- 23:33 - Show up on time and you are in the top 10%
- 24:18 - Wrap up
The big takeaways
- Specialize hard enough and the work comes to you. Mike picked doors and windows, got great at it, and stopped bidding and selling jobs entirely.
- Flashing is the whole game on the exterior. Get the water running off and away from the window, every time.
- The mental game beats talent. You can talk yourself out of anything you do not want to do, or into anything you need to do.
- Respect the tools. A shattered wrist off someone else's ladder taught him to check his own setup, every time.
- The trades have no ceiling. Apply yourself and a six-figure living is well within reach.
- Just show up on time. In most trades that alone puts you ahead of 90% of the field.
Full Transcript
Reasonable Tech Dad (00:01) Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of the Reasonable Contractor Podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Templin, and a new friend with me, but a good friend, Mike Bullock here of Bullock's Home Remodeling. And in my short time in the project management industry, I have seen a handful of window guys, but none better than Mike here, kind of a rock star at what he does. And better than me telling the story, why don't you tell it, Mike? Thanks for coming on and tell us how you got started, tell us about how you landed, where you're at now.
Mike Bullock (00:31) Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Well, I've been doing home remodeling, doors and windows, for almost 20 years. And believe it or not, I walked up to my pastor and said, do you need any help with this project that he had going on at our church? And it was a little remodel project. And he said, absolutely. So he had me hauling garbage out, just doing the bare minimum grunt stuff, and I kept on coming back.
Reasonable Tech Dad (01:02) The grunt work, yeah. Yeah.
Mike Bullock (01:05) Kept on coming back. I was available. And we ended up remodeling an entire house that our church owns. And so I just fell in love with it. Really enjoyed what I was doing, seeing the rewarding aspect of, you know, start to finish, something going from ugly to beautiful, from destroyed to now livable. Meanwhile, my 40-hour-a-week job, I was in retail management. So I was slinging jeans at the Buckle in the Burnsville Center. And I was going through the management training program, and I was basically on the fast track to becoming a store manager at Buckle. And I was actually offered a store. The big problem was that it was in some small-town mall in South Dakota. And it just absolutely was not in the cards for me to leave my home. Believe it or not, a couple months later I met my wife. So I dodged a big bullet not going. But in the meantime, my good friend and my first boss in the remodeling industry was the general contractor at our church who saw what I was doing at the church parsonage and—
Reasonable Tech Dad (02:15) Yeah, a little guided there.
Mike Bullock (02:29) —seeing my drive and my willingness to work, and he hired me. So I got my start as a helper for a general contractor that I still collaborate with and do a lot of work with. And that's been almost twenty years ago.
Reasonable Tech Dad (02:42) Super cool. Wow, dude. That's amazing. You talked about how you took the ugly to beautiful and the helping thing. What drew you to it that first day, dude? You said you walked up to him and, like, can I help? What do you think that was? Was that more about the church vibe and just being a giving person kind of deal and wanting to help people?
Mike Bullock (02:47) Yeah, absolutely. I feel like, you know, just having the heart of availability has always been something that's just been inside of me. Being someone that is available is, I believe, a really rewarding and powerful way to live. I was absolutely not qualified for anything, hence the reason I started off carrying garbage out. But it turned into something. And I believe, honestly, I'm a faith-filled man. I believe that God has a plan for everybody's life. And the plan was not for me to be slinging jeans at the Buckle for the rest of my life. This was the plan.
Reasonable Tech Dad (03:50) I just can't see it in the context that I've known you. I can't see it. I mean, I get it. I get why they wanted to give you a store, but that's interesting, dude.
Mike Bullock (04:05) You gotta start somewhere. And in this industry, I'm sure you know, anybody who knows anything about the industry and trades knows that pretty much you're gonna start at the bottom and work your way up. You gotta be humble, you gotta be quiet, and you gotta show up. And so that's what I did. I just showed up. I was just available and I really, really enjoyed learning and seeing the before and after, you know, the start to finish.
Reasonable Tech Dad (04:36) Awesome, dude. So let's dig into your specialty, which is something I've learned, if people don't know. Windows and doors seem simple on the outside, and I have learned very quickly that they just are not. They're not as simple. Anybody says you can put a door in, anybody can put a window in. Yes, you can get it in, but putting it in correctly, having it really put in well, is more challenging than people think. So talk about what makes you good and what makes you excel so much in that trade specifically.
Mike Bullock (05:11) So back to my first job. I was a helper for a general contractor. He didn't really do a lot of doors and windows. And the winter before I got married, he got really, really slow. Kind of went into that recession time. Meanwhile, the Minneapolis Airport Commission was thriving. So that was a certain mile radius around the airport where the runways changed directions, all the homes in that area got X amount of dollars to do sound abatement. And a lot of people chose to use that money for doors and windows. Some people insulated their house, a few other things, but the grand majority of them chose to do doors and windows. And while my good friend at church was slow and didn't have any work for me, another gentleman that I went to church with was doing doors and windows for the Minneapolis Airport Commission. And Andersen was doing the windows. So he said, hey, do you want to come to work? We need another guy. And again, jumping in, learning from the best. He was one of the absolute best at what he did. And I put my head down and I watched and I learned and I asked a lot of questions. And just over time, I really honed in on seeing how a window goes in—
Reasonable Tech Dad (06:22) Yes.
Mike Bullock (06:38) —seeing how to flash it properly, which is the most important thing on the exterior is making sure that the water's gonna run off and run away from the window. Insulating it, trimming it, which is what the majority of the homeowners are gonna see, is how does it look on the inside? Does it look professional? But making it operate and function. I learned from one of the best in the business. And he's since retired and moved on to other things. But the other thing I realized is I became very routined, very good at, and very satisfied doing just doors and windows once I became a father. So I didn't have to bid jobs. I didn't have to sell jobs. I didn't have to lose out on jobs to other contractors because I honed in with Andersen. That's who I sub with the majority of the time. And they're so consistent and they're so busy that I really don't have to think about work after I go home.
Reasonable Tech Dad (07:16) Okay.
Mike Bullock (07:38) I've been a father for 10 years, and so for the last 10 years, I've pretty consistently had work just about every day. Right through COVID, we worked. And so I've been able to just focus on family, focus on church, other things, and really not have to worry about trying to drum up business, drum up work. And when you do something consistently for a long period of time, you get really good at it. And that's what, thankfully, we've been able to do.
Reasonable Tech Dad (08:05) What an interesting take on simplifying things, right? Especially in this game, not finding work and just finding a nice niche to be fulfilled and have some family time and have time for other things, dude. Good for you, dude. That's amazing.
Mike Bullock (08:10) Yeah, the most important thing is, you know, my relationship with my family, my church priorities and commitments. And so being able to be in the trades because it's something that's fulfilling. It's definitely what God's plan was for my life, but not have to search and worry and try to find work all the time has been a tremendous blessing.
Reasonable Tech Dad (08:44) No doubt, dude. Well said. How about the challenges? That sounds amazing, and I'm sure that's absolutely your truth and how that's operated for you. Why do other guys struggle? I don't say other guys, I say what's the challenging aspect? Not talking about anybody individually, but what makes it such a challenging trade? Is it because of the time that you've had? Do you think it's what other things make that trade challenging?
Mike Bullock (09:19) Boy, you know, if you're gonna be really good at it, if you're gonna be one of the ones that makes it, I believe you gotta deal with the elements. You know, it doesn't really matter if it's raining, we're working. It doesn't really matter if it's ten below, we're working. If it's almost a hundred degrees like it was today, we were working all day. Your mental game has got to be—
Reasonable Tech Dad (09:41) That's a Minnesota guy talking.
Mike Bullock (09:49) —very tough. You can talk yourself out of just about anything you don't want to do. But you can also talk yourself into just about anything that you need to do. And so for me, I've got other guys that are relying on me, other family members that have people relying on me to lead. And so we move into and thrive on those challenges. Because at the end of the day, we get to smile and say, yeah, we beat that.
Reasonable Tech Dad (09:55) Well said. Love that.
Mike Bullock (10:18) You know, that was a really huge project, or that was a really high window, or a big window. And look at what we just did. And there's a sense of pride in that. Because especially with, you know, Renewal by Andersen, there's like sixty-five, seventy crews that run. Not all consistently, but a lot of them are running every day. And you'd be surprised how many times guys will call in cold, guys will call in hot. It's too hot. It's pouring down rain. But we're still going. So I think that's one of the big challenges. The other challenge is gonna be just the physical aspect of what the job is. I mean, sometimes you're gonna get windows that are, you know, thirty by forty, and one guy could just lift it and put it in the hole and it's easy. But when you get to the level that we're at, I mean, we'll walk into a five-million-dollar house and the whole great room is just glass twenty-five feet up, and you gotta put six, seven windows in and line up with a laser and get the arch-top trim to line up. And those are the kind of projects that we take on because of the mental game that we've acquired over the years. It can be very challenging. It can be very dangerous. I mean, we see guys run their fingers through table saws. I mean, we see guys fall off ladders. It's not for the faint of heart.
Reasonable Tech Dad (11:28) And the skill level. Well said.
Mike Bullock (11:51) I've had my fair share of injuries and setbacks throughout my career. So I definitely know—
Reasonable Tech Dad (11:55) You gotta have a good injury story for yourself if you've seen all that. What do you got, a bad one for you? What's some of the good ones?
Mike Bullock (12:04) So my first run-in with a table saw, boy, was I just a young, dumb kid. Back to that first general contractor that I worked for. We were installing hardwood flooring and I was the cut man, he was the installer. And so he had me cutting — if the piece of wood was like this, he had me cut a U-shape out to fit around the floor vent. And so you have to dive down onto the saw and go forwards, which is normal, but I also had to go backwards, which is not normal. And the hardwood is not meant to go backwards. And of course, I didn't have the table saw set correctly, and I ran my finger right through the table saw and just basically exploded the tip of my finger.
Reasonable Tech Dad (12:57) No.
Mike Bullock (13:00) I called my dad. I wrapped my finger up. I called my dad and I said, dad, I need you to come get me. I need to go get stitches. And so I went and got stitches. And my dad said, all right, are you going home? I said, no, I gotta go back to work. I gotta finish this job. So I went back to work and I helped him finish that floor. That's old school. That's how you gotta — you know, you can't be afraid to get back on it.
Reasonable Tech Dad (13:15) What a guy. What a guy. You're a beast.
Mike Bullock (13:30) Plenty of guys would have wussed out and just gone home.
Reasonable Tech Dad (13:33) Preach. And the fact that you smile when you say that with so much pride, that means something, dude. That's super cool that you smile when you say it and tell that story.
Mike Bullock (13:46) Yeah. The one — I've fallen off a couple of ladders. One was real bad. And this is a lesson to anybody out there, never trust someone else's ladder setup. I don't care if you've been working with them for years and years and years, if you think they know what they're doing, you gotta check your own ladder setup. And so I climbed a ladder that was set up on a cement slab. I was about seventeen feet off the ground, and I heard the back of the ladder go—
Reasonable Tech Dad (14:02) Check it.
Mike Bullock (14:20) —and all of a sudden I just was gone. So the back of the ladder slid out and I fell 17 feet and shattered my wrist. I was out of work for, I don't know, six or eight weeks, something like that. I had to have surgery. But you know what? I'll tell you, God took me right through that whole scenario. I never missed a bill, I never missed a payment. I was actually able — I was with Andersen. They brought me on as a crew trainer. So I was able to train another crew and still make an income while I wasn't able to physically do the job. So it was a really difficult time. I was nervous about it. You know, obviously as I'm getting out of the hospital, I'm wondering how things are gonna work out. And it was definitely something that God led me right through it. But you learn through those scenarios and through those setbacks, through those trials, you learn to respect the tools. You learn to be more careful, not to be arrogant about it. I've been using a table saw for almost 20 years now. And my comfort level can never bring me to a place of complacency with it. I've got to respect that saw and know that that thing can cause me bodily harm. So keeping that sharp and being on top of it, checking my own ladder setups—
Reasonable Tech Dad (15:39) Yeah. 'Cause I've crashed before.
Mike Bullock (15:45) You know, I'm the one checking it 'cause I need to be the one that knows that I'm safe. So stuff like that. Those are the setbacks that come along that — to talk about challenges, those are some of the big ones.
Reasonable Tech Dad (16:00) Those are the lessons that are driven home that are never forgotten, that people get scared of. But when you take that mentality of taking things on, those kind of mistakes and learning lessons are what make you good and make you talk about things like not being complacent, not falling into arrogance about things like that. That's awesome, dude. So along those notes of talking about mental toughness and being strong — one thing we always like to talk about on this podcast is getting the next generation into the trades. Not only do we need you guys, we need the young kids to take this up. Forget the technology piece, which I talk about a lot on here with AI and stuff like that. That's its own train of thought. But just in general, can you talk to the next generation? Tell them why they should be getting involved in the trades. Tell them about the fulfillment, and if they're looking for something, why it's such a good direction.
Mike Bullock (17:05) Man, you know, when I stepped into this, I bet I was 19, 20 years old. And again, like I said before, I had no clue that this was where I was gonna build — I needed a job, right? I had no clue where it was gonna take me. But I quickly realized that there is really no ceiling to what the potential is in the trades. Especially now with technology moving in the direction that it's moving, like you said, AI moving in the direction that it's moving. There are people that are fearing for the human aspect of their job, right? The things that they used to do that now technology can begin to do for them. Which — I'm all for advancement in technology. I'm all for that. My job's not going anywhere anytime soon. So the future of trades is a really promising future. Right now the kind of — I don't know if you would call it a joke or the saying or what you could call it, but the industry is so busy and so vibrant that if you have a pulse and a hammer, you can be busy. And that's not necessarily a good thing. But if you apply yourself, if you put your head down and get underneath a team of people or a general contractor or a leader who will teach you, and you learn, if you go to trade school, if you join the union, if you start wherever you start and just put your head down and work, there's a beautiful future in the trades. It is absolutely a very, very good way to make an honest living and a good living. You look up what the trades are, it doesn't really matter what trade you're in, if you apply yourself and you work hard for any amount of time, it's quite easily a six-figure income. I think the stigma is that trades and blue collar and that kind of thing is something to be looked down upon. And you need to go to college, you need to get a four-year degree, you need to be doing this white-collar job. And for some people, that is the path. And that's okay. We need that. But just as much as we need that, we also need men and women to step into trades. And boy, can we do so well? I've got a couple of kids on my crew, they're probably — I bet you they're three months into it. One of them's 22, one of them's 24. They're both killing it. I've told them both separately that they absolutely have the potential at some point down the road to be running their own crew. I pay raises based on what you're able to produce, what you're able to do, which means that you can be earning more money pretty quickly. You can climb and you can elevate based on your ability to learn and grow and move forward. So the potential is just, like I said, it's endless. You know, right now I'm trying to figure out and pray and decide how to multiply and expand my company to the point where I have multiple job sites running at the same time and I'm managing those job sites. So it's a great opportunity for kids coming out of high school who don't feel like college is the next step, who don't feel like more schooling and the student loans and that path that sometimes people can force them down — if you don't feel like that's the path, that's okay. It's a good idea to consider joining a trade.
Reasonable Tech Dad (21:11) Yes, agreed, one hundred percent. And just to double-click, highlight a couple of things that you've said already. Not only is there no ceiling, so if you're ambitious, great, you can go after it and you can get huge, you can get as big as you want. But an important thing you brought up earlier is those ten years of having a family and going home and your job is off your plate. So many people think about that, especially younger kids. They wanna work, they wanna live, but they wanna have their social life. They wanna feel who they are. They want to explore relationships, they want to travel. What's cool about the trades is that you can pick your level, right? Pick your comfort level. And another important thing you brought up is with those young guys and how you pay out raises. It's not like a lot of jobs where you're stuck. You don't wait for an annual review. And what you just said, you get paid for what you can produce. And finding a company — it's straight up, if you learn how to do this aspect of your job, that will raise your pay. The more you can do—
Mike Bullock (21:49) Absolutely.
Reasonable Tech Dad (22:09) And that's the same way with all the trades. They're structured like that through an apprenticeship. As you go through an apprenticeship, as you get through that year, you get more and more money. And I think it's important for people to understand the freedom and the flexibility that through life changes — and as things change for you, and they will — you kids don't think, they think it's all gonna be the same. I was never smarter than I was at 23. All you had to do was ask me. Things are gonna change for you unexpectedly. And what's beautiful about the trades is that you're not stuck. You're not stuck at this job, you're not stuck in this position, this corporate ladder that a lot of people talk about. You can move. You can move companies. There's a lot of places to go. You can move up, you can scale back. And I know that there's a number of guys that have tried to start their own thing, and now they're super, super comfortable working for someone else.
Mike Bullock (23:01) Right. Yep. Yep.
Reasonable Tech Dad (23:02) Because it's simpler. All the things you talked about, not having to sell jobs, not having to do all the business things. You don't have to do that. And you can try that and you're not broken. You don't fail. You can come right on back. You've been still working and your skills are still there. There's just a lot of flexibility and power in the trades. So highly recommend, kids. We need you. And we're dying for people. When we're laughing about all you gotta do is show up — showing up for your job in the trades is like this thing that puts you in the top 50% just about instantly.
Mike Bullock (23:33) I was just at one of my good friends' — he's an electrician, journeyman electrician — and he literally said that as far as the electricians go, if you are on time consistently, you are literally ranked higher than ninety percent. I'm like, are we serious? That's all it takes.
Reasonable Tech Dad (23:59) Ooh, 90% because all you gotta do is show up on time and you're in the top ten percent. Think about how easy that is, kids. Think about that. You don't even have to be good. If you're there on time, top ten percent. No questions asked.
Mike Bullock (24:03) Right. Yeah. You're gonna stand out.
Reasonable Tech Dad (24:18) Mike, I know it's late. I know you've had a long day out in the heat, working hard. I appreciate you coming on and taking the time, man. This has been a pleasure and I'm sure people are gonna get a lot out of this. So thank you again. Have a good rest of your night, dude, and we'll talk more later.
Mike Bullock (24:24) Absolutely, it's been a pleasure. Sounds great. Thanks a lot.